The Dead Conscious according to Revelation 6:9-11?

"DO THE MARTYRS UNDER THE ALTAR DEMONSTRATE THAT THE DEAD ARE CONSCIOUS?"

Revelation 6:9-11

 THE IGLESIA NI Cristo (Church Of Christ” indeed uphold the doctrine that the dead remain unconscious, and will not rise from the grave until the Judgment Day. However, a certain “Conley” questioned this doctrine and trying to refute it using Revelation 6:9-11. This is what he said:

“The organization known as the "Iglesia Ni Cristo" claims that when the dead await judgment, they remain unconscious. However, some narratives in the Bible, such as the narrative of the martyrs under the altar, seem to contradict this teaching.

“When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne. They cried out with a loud voice, "O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before you will judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?" Then they were each given a white robe and told to rest a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brothers should be complete, who were to be killed as they themselves had been.” (Revelation 6:9-11 ESV)

After quoting the verse, Mr. Conley concluded that:

“Does this passage actually teach the dead are conscious? Indeed, it does.”

He argued that Revelation 6:9-11 is “not a metaphor for something else.” He further claim that what the verse mentioned is literal, he said, “these are actually martyrs.”

Actually, he admitted that the Book of Revelation contains many things which are symbolic. He said:

“While many of the things in the book of Revelation are symbolic, we have legitimate reasons to call them symbolic as opposed to actual or visions of the actual. We are told that martyrs cry out and are given no reason to think that a martyr is a metaphor for something that is not a martyr or that crying out is a metaphor for something that is not crying out. What would such things represent? The martyrs have been treated unjustly and they yearn for God's righteous judgment.”

For him, the crying out of the martyrs are literal because “martyrs” can cry, and that it can only be a metaphor if the those mentioned crying out cannot cry out. He said, “crying out is a metaphor for something that is not crying out.”

He continued answering the argument that “an altar would not be large enough to fit that many martyrs under (it).” We are going to leave this out because this is not our answer to his contention. This is our answer:

INC ANSWERS:

(1) Our belief that the dead are unconscious is not our own, but the teachings clearly written in the Bible:

“His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.” (Psalms 146:4 KJV)

In Young’s Literal Translation of the Bible, this is how this verse was rendered:

“His spirit goeth forth, he returneth to his earth, In that day have his thoughts perished.” (Psalms 146:4 YLT)

 

In Ecclesiastes 9:5-6, this is what the Bible further tells about the dead:

“Yes, the living know they are going to die, but the dead know nothing. They have no further reward; they are completely forgotten. Their loves, their hates, their passions, all died with them. They will never again take part in anything that happens in this world.” (Ecclesiastes 9:5-6 TEV)

(2) The teaching that the thoughts perished as a person died (the dead is unconscious) doesn’t contradict what is written in Revelation 6:9-11, but the wrong interpretation of what the verse says.

Because it is clearly written in the Bible that as man dies his thoughts perishes, knows nothing, and will never again take part in anything that happens in this world, that saying that this teaching contradict Revelation 6:9-11 is like saying that there are contradictions in the Bible. But no true Christians will accept that a verse of the Bible will contradict another verse of the Bible, for the Bible says:

“For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.” (I Corinthians 14:33 KJV)

Actually, nothing in Revelation 6:9-11 that says that the dead still have thoughts (conscious).” This is only their interpretation of what the verse said. And because the Bible explicitly teaches that as man died “his thoughts perished” and he knows nothing, thus, their interpretation or understanding of the verse is erroneous.

(3) Based on his own words, Revelation 6:9-11 is a metaphor.

Remember what he said? He said, “crying out is a metaphor for something that is not crying out.” Based on his own words, we conclude that Revelation 6:9-11 is a metaphor. Take note of what the Bible says as a person dies:

“Yes, the living know they are going to die, but the dead know nothing. They have no further reward; they are completely forgotten. Their loves, their hates, their passions, all died with them. They will never again take part in anything that happens in this world.” (Ecclesiastes 9:5-6 TEV)

The Bible explicitly says, “their passions, all died with them.” The word “passion” means “intense emotion” as love, joy or hatred, and “outburst of emotion” as rage, anger or cried out.

Thus, Conley’s own words got him into trouble. He said, “crying out is a metaphor for something that is not crying out.” The Bible testifies that dead’s passion (the intense emotion and outburst of emotion) all died with him. Hence, Revelation 6:9-11 is a “metaphor.”

(4) Its a “cry for justice”:

The “martyrs’ cry” in Revelation 6:9-11 ("O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before you will judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?") is not literal but it is like the “cry of Abel’s blood:

“And He said, ‘What have you done? The voice of your brother's blood cries out to Me from the ground. So now you are cursed from the earth, which has opened its mouth to receive your brother's blood from your hand.” (Genesis 4:10-11 NKJV)

CONCLUSION

Because Mr. Conley did not first made a careful study of the biblical basis of the doctrines upheld by the Iglesia Ni Cristo (Church Of Christ), thus, he was the one who end up contradicting the Bible.

Because he ignored the teachings of the Bible (or because of his ignorance of the teachings of the Bible), he misunderstood or misinterpreted the biblical passage, and even end up in an embarrassing and awkward situation that his argument was refuted by his own words.

Mr. Conley’s misinterpretation and misunderstanding of the passages of the Bible as we have seen here, only proves that a person will indeed end up in erroneous beliefs if he tried to understand the Bible through his own and rejects the importance of God’s messengers.  This is what Apostle Peter warned us in II Peter 3:16:

“This is what he says in all his letters when he writes on the subject. There are some difficult things in his letters which ignorant and unstable people explain falsely, as they do with other passages of the Scriptures. So they bring on their own destruction.” (II Peter 3:16 TEV)