A Real INC Minister Answers "Conley"

THE REAL DEAL

ROMANS 10:14-17

The Real Conversation that will take place if “Conley” will only talk to a real INC Minister

 THERE WAS A certain person who introduced himself as “Conley” and posted in our page saying “I created a website to counter the Iglesia Ni Cristo doctrines.” When I visited the website he said he created, I read a conversation between “Conley” and an alleged “Minister” of the Iglesia Ni Cristo. The Conversation goes like this:

Conley: Hi! My name is Conley! I am an engineer at a software company in California. You probably can't tell by looking at me, but I'm part Filipino! My lolo lives in Metro Manila. A couple years ago, I visited him in the Philippines for the first time. I heard there was an Iglesia Ni Cristo centennial happening soon in Bulacan, and I wanted to learn more about what the church believed. When I returned to America, I started attending their weekly bible studies, and was surprised by what they taught!

Since everything we know about God and Man comes from the bible, I needed to know what the INC believed about the Bible.

Minister: We believe that the bible is the word of God, but it can only be understood if a messenger teaches it to you. Romans 10:14-15 says "How are they to hear without someone preaching? And how are they to preach unless they-- are sent?" Any questions?

Conley: But that passage isn't saying that you need a messenger to explain the Bible!

Bible: Romans 10:14-17. How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching? And how are they to preach unless they are sent? As it is written "How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the good news!"

Conley: Romans 10:14 is saying that people who have never heard the bible need someone to deliver it to them, not explain it to them.

Bible: But they have not all obeyed the gospel, for Isaiah says, "Who has believed what he has heard from us?" So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ.

Conley: Romans 10:17 tells us that faith comes though hearing the words of Christ that are written in the bible, not from hearing the words of a minister.

Minister: But the bible is shrouded in mystery, how can you understand it without a messenger to explain it?

Conley: That's what the Holy Spirit is for! Paul says it's the Holy Spirit who teaches us.

Bible: 1 Corinthians 2:12-13. Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might understand the things freely given by God. And we impart this in words not taught by human wisdom, but taught by the Spirit, interpreting spiritual truths to those who are spiritual.

Conley: The Holy Spirit wrote the bible, and we have to rely on him to explain it. Human teachers can be helpful, but if we trust any human over the anointing of the Holy Spirit, we will be deceived.

Bible: 1 John 2:26-27. I write these things to you about those who are trying to deceive you. But the anointing that you received from him abides in you, and you have no need that anyone should teach you, but as his anointing teaches you about everything, and is true, and is no lie-- just as it has taught you, abide in Him.

Conley: I tried to explain to the minister that the Bible was written for everyone to read and understand with the help of the Spirit. Even though I showed him scripture that said exactly that, I don't think he believed me.

In this “conversation” between Conley and a “miniter” he posted in his website, the creator of the site wanted to paint a negative picture of a minister of a gospel that: (1) an INC minister used only a verse and then explain and conclude many things from it; (2) and that an INC minister cannot answer his contentions. The truth is, the “minister” he mentioned in this “conversation” is a fictitious one.

If Mr. Conley will only talk to a real Iglesia Ni Cristo Minister regarding Romans 10:14-17, the conversation  will go like this:

THE REAL DEAL

CONLEY: But that passage isn't saying that you need a messenger to explain the Bible!

BIBLE: Romans 10:14-17. How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching? And how are they to preach unless they are sent? As it is written "How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the good news!"

CONLEY: Romans 10:14 is saying that people who have never heard the bible need someone to deliver it to them, not explain it to them.

A TRUE INC MINISTER: Excuse me, but what you said that “Romans 10:14 is saying that people who have never heard the bible need someone to deliver it to them, not explain it to them” is not what is written in the verse. Let us read again Romans 10:14-17:

BIBLE: Romans 10:14-17 NIV “How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them?  And how can they preach unless they are sent? As it is written, ‘How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!’ But not all the Israelites accepted the good news. For Isaiah says, ‘Lord, who has believed our message?’  Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ.”

A TRUE INC MINISTER: Nothing here that says, “people who have never heard the bible need someone to deliver it to them, not explain it to them.” What the Bible says, “How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? AND HOW CAN THEY HEAR WITHOUT SOMEONE PREACHING TO THEM?  And how can they preach unless they are sent?”

CONLEY: OK, there is nothing there that says “people who have never heard the bible need someone to deliver it to them, not explain it to them.” But still, that passage isn't saying that you need a messenger to explain the Bible!

A TRUE INC MINISTER: Excuse me, but I think you failed to understand the verse. A person needs to believe so that they can call on the name of the Lord, “How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in?” He needs to hear the Gospel so that they can believe, “And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard?” And he needs someone to preach to him the Gospel, “AND HOW CAN THEY HEAR WITHOUT SOMEONE PREACHING TO THEM? And how can they preach UNLESS THEY ARE SENT?” Thus the verse explicitly tells us that we need to hear the preaching of a preacher sent by God.

This passage of the Bible clearly proves “you need a messenger to explain the Bible”:

BIBLE: Acts 8:26-38 NIV, “Now an angel of the Lord said to Philip, ‘Go south to the road-the desert road-that goes down from Jerusalem to Gaza.’  So he started out, and on his way he met an Ethiopian eunuch, an important official in charge of all the treasury of Candace, queen of the Ethiopians. This man had gone to Jerusalem to worship,  and on his way home was sitting in his chariot reading the book of Isaiah the prophet.  The Spirit told Philip, ‘Go to that chariot and stay near it.’ Then Philip ran up to the chariot and heard the man reading Isaiah the prophet. ‘DO YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU ARE READING?’ Philip asked. HOW CAN I, HE SAID, "UNLESS SOMEONE EXPLAINS IT TO ME?’ So he invited Philip to come up and sit with him. The eunuch was reading this passage of Scripture: ‘He was led like a sheep to the slaughter, and as a lamb before the shearer is silent, so he did not open his mouth. In his humiliation he was deprived of justice. Who can speak of his descendants? For his life was taken from the earth.’  The eunuch asked Philip, "Tell me, please, who is the prophet talking about, himself or someone else?’ THEN PHILIP BEGAN WITH THAT VERY PASSAGE OF SCRIPTURE AND TOLD HIM THE GOOD NEWS ABOUT JESUS. As they traveled along the road, they came to some water and the eunuch said, ‘Look, here is water. Why shouldn't I be baptized?’ And he gave orders to stop the chariot. Then both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water and Philip baptized him.” (Emphasis mine)

CONLEY: Romans 10:17 tells us that faith comes through hearing the words of Christ that are written in the Bible, not from hearing the words of a minister.

A TRUE INC MINISTER: Pardon me, but I think you failed again to understand the verse. The verse is ecplicitly telling us that faith comes through hearing the words of Christ that are written in the Bible preach by the preacher sent by God.

BIBLE: Romans 10:14-15 NIV “How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And HOW CAN THEY HEAR WITHOUT SOMEONE PREACHING TO THEM?  And how can they preach unless they are sent?” (emphasis mine)

A TRUE INC MINISTER: I noticed Mr. Conley that you continuously ignoring this part of the verse saying “AND HOW CAN THEY HEAR WITHOUT SOMEONE PREACHING TO THEM?” Who are those God entrusted to preach His words?

BIBLE: Colossians 1:25-26 RSV, “Of which I BECAME A MINISTER ACCORDING TO THE DIVINE OFFICE WHICH WAS GIVEN TO ME FOR YOU, TO MAKE THE WORD OF GOD FULLY KNOWN, the mystery hidden for ages and generations but now made manifest to his saints.” (Emphasis mine)

CONLEY: Apostle Paul says it's the Holy Spirit who teaches us. So although the Bibe is shrouded in mystery, you can understand it without a messenger to explain it. That's what the Holy Spirit is for!

BIBLE: 1 Corinthians 2:12-13. “Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might understand the things freely given by God. And we impart this in words not taught by human wisdom, but taught by the Spirit, interpreting spiritual truths to those who are spiritual.”

A TRUE INC MINISTER: Mr. Conley, you misinterpreted again the verse of the Bible just like what you did with Romans 10:14-17. There is nothing in the verse you quoted that “you can understand it (the Bible) without a messenger to explain it.” This statement of yours contradicted Acts 8:26-38. Whenb Philip saw the Eunoch reading the Book of Isaiah, he asked him, “DO YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU ARE READING?” The Eunuch answered, “HOW CAN I...UNLESS SOMEONE EXPLAINS IT TO ME?” The Bible tells that Phillip then “BEGAN WITH THAT VERY PASSAGE OF SCRIPTURE AND TOLD HIM THE GOOD NEWS ABOUT JESUS.” This is how other versions of the Bible rendered this verse (Acts 8:35):

BIBLE: Acts 8:34-35 ASV “And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other? And Philip opened his mouth, and beginning from this Scripture, PREACHED UNTO HIM Jesus.” (emphasis mine)

A TRUE INC MINISTER: Thus, Mr. Conley, I Corinthians 2:12-13 is correct, your interpretation that “you can understand it (the Bible) without a messenger to explain it” is wrong. The Holy Spirit taught us through the messengers of God:

BIBLE: Acts 2:14 and 36-41 NIV “Then Peter stood up with the Eleven, raised his voice and addressed the crowd: "Fellow Jews and all of you who live in Jerusalem, LET ME EXPLAIN THIS TO YOU; LISTEN CAREFULLY TO WHAT I SAY...

“Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ. When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and said to Peter and the other apostles, "Brothers, what shall we do?"  Peter replied, "Repent and BE BAPTIZED, EVERY ONE OF YOU, IN THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST FOR THE FORGIVENESS OF YOUR SINS. AND YOU WILL RECEIVE THE GIFT OF THE HOLY SPIRIT. The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off-for all whom the Lord our God will call." With many other words he warned them; and he pleaded with them, "Save yourselves from this corrupt generation."  THOSE WHO ACCEPTED HIS MESSAGE WERE BAPTIZED, and about three thousand were added to their number that day.” (emphasis mine)

A TRUE INC MINISTER: The people in Jerusalem during that time did not Just receive the Holy Spirit, but was taught by Apostle Peter who was filled with the Holy Spirit. After they believe the message preached by Apostle Peter, they were baptized.  Take note what Apostle Peter said, “BE BAPTIZED, EVERY ONE OF YOU, IN THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST FOR THE FORGIVENESS OF YOUR SINS. AND YOU WILL RECEIVE THE GIFT OF THE HOLY SPIRIT.” Today’s English Version rendered Acts 2:38 as follows:

BIBLE: Acts 2:38 TEV “Peter said to them, ‘Each one of you must turn away from his sins and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ, so that your sins will be forgiven; and you will receive God's gift, the Holy Spirit.”

A TRUE INC MINISTER: Thus, indeed, we are taught by the Holy Spirit through God’s messenger. When a person believes, he will be baptized. Apostle Peter said, “be baptized...and you will receive God's gift, the Holy Spirit.”

CONLEY: The Holy Spirit wrote the Bible, and we have to rely on him to explain it. Human teachers can be helpful, but if we trust any human over the anointing of the Holy Spirit, we will be deceived.

BIBLE: 1 John 2:26-27. “I write these things to you about those who are trying to deceive you. But the anointing that you received from him abides in you, and you have no need that anyone should teach you, but as his anointing teaches you about everything, and is true, and is no lie-- just as it has taught you, abide in Him.”

A TRUE INC MINISTER: Pardon me again Mr. Conley. I John 2:26-27 is correct, but again, your interpretation or understanding of the verse is incorrect. The verse did not said “you can understand it (the Bible) without a messenger to explain it” and “you have to rely only to the Holy Spirit to explain the Bible.” True the Bible said, “you have no need that anyone should teach you, but as his anointing teaches you about everything.” However, who are those that Apostle John referring to when he said “you have no need that anyone should teach you” because everything were taught to them? I John 2:20 answers this question:

BIBLE: I John 2:20 TEV. “But you have had the Holy Spirit poured out on you by Christ, and so all of you know the truth.”

A TRUE INC MINISTER: Those who know the truth, those that everything were taught to them, and those who have no need that anyone should teach them were those who already received the Holy Spirit. Remember who will receive the Holy Spirit according to Apostle Peter?

BIBLE: Acts 2:38 TEV “Peter said to them, ‘Each one of you must turn away from his sins and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ, so that your sins will be forgiven; and you will receive God's gift, the Holy Spirit.”

A TRUE INC MINISTER: The Lord Jesus clearly tells us who should be baptized to receive the Holy Spirit:

BIBLE: Mark 16:15-16 NIV. “He said to them, "Go into all the world and PREACH the good news to all creation.  WHOEVER BELIEVES AND IS BAPTIZED will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.” (emphasis mine)

A TRUE INC MINISTER: And to whom the authority to preach the word of God was given?

BIBLE: Colossians 1:25 RSV. “Of which I became a MINISTER according to the divine office which was given to me for you, TO MAKE THE WORD OF GOD FULLY KNOWN.” (emphasis mine)

A TRUE INC MINISTER: Actually, you cannot show us verse of the Bible that says that you can receive the Holy Spirit only through reading the Bible without listening to the preaching of God’s messenger. Instead, what we can read is that the people received the Holy Spirit after they heard the preaching of God’s messenger:

BIBLE: Acts 10:42-44 TEV. “And he commanded us to preach the gospel to the people and to testify that he is the one whom God has appointed judge of the living and the dead. All the prophets spoke about him, saying that everyone who believes in him will have his sins forgiven through the power of his name." While Peter was still speaking, the Holy Spirit came down on all those who were listening to his message.”

A TRUE INC MINISTER: There were also instances that the Holy Spirit were received after the laying of hands of God’s messengers:

BIBLE: Acts 8:15-17 TEV, “When they arrived, they prayed for the believers that they might receive the Holy Spirit. For the Holy Spirit had not yet come down on any of them; they had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Then Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.”

A TRUE INC MINISTER: Thus, the Bible is full of testimonies proving the importance of God’s messengers. In fact, no one can come to the knowledge of the truth through his own:

BIBLE: II Timothy 3:7 NKJV. “always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.”

A TRUE INC MINISTER: The Bible clearly admonishes us to go to God’s messengers to learn God’s will because it is to them that God gave the duty to teach the true knowledge of God:

BIBLE: Malachi 2:7 TEV. “It is the duty of priests to teach the true knowledge of God. People should go to them to learn my will, because they are the messengers of the LORD Almighty.”

A TRUE INC MINISTER: Although I have shown him these biblicl passages, he still insist that he doesn’t need God’s messengers to understand God’s will. Thus, the last verse I read him is this:

BIBLE: Luke 10:16 TEV. “Jesus said to his disciples, "Whoever listens to you listens to me; whoever rejects you rejects me; and whoever rejects me rejects the one who sent me.”

Mr. Conley, please talk to a real Iglesia Ni Cristo minister and not to an imaginary one.